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Post by Eyalan on Mar 9, 2007 21:39:51 GMT -5
In LOTR, TT, chapter 5, Gandalf talks about his travel under the ground and his fight with the Balrog. He says:"Far, far below, the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."
How can we be older then Sauron, otherwise being Iluvatar himself?
If he's a Maia, I suppose he was created with the Ainur...so does that mean that there is an older world than Eä?
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Post by Haldir on Mar 11, 2007 22:02:23 GMT -5
^Hey that's a good thing to wonder... I've never thought about that before! Because Melkor was the first Ainur that was mentioned. I though that Illuvatar was the oldest being... but then when he created the Void, it was never called empty, so there could have been creatures created by Illuvatar, but not important/relevant enough to be mentioned?
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Post by Eyalan on Mar 12, 2007 11:14:15 GMT -5
I cannot imagine Illuvatar creating those dark beings, for his plans were obviously directed the other way around. Perhaps Melkor had something to do with them...  |
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Post by Haldir on Mar 12, 2007 11:56:42 GMT -5
But if Melkor had something to do with them, then he would know exactly what they were... but Gandalf said that even Melkor doesn't know?
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Post by Eyalan on Mar 12, 2007 12:20:57 GMT -5
Gandalf said Sauron didn't know. Sauron was the Maia corrupted by Melkor. Melkor used to be the best, prettiest and wisest of the Ainur.
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Post by Haldir on Mar 12, 2007 13:19:07 GMT -5
OHHHHHH my bad! Ahh *slaps self* I keep getting their names mixed. Then I think they were probably created by Melkor at the beginning, him being the most powerful and knowledgeable out of all the Ainur, aside from Illúvatar. The Valar (though he isna counted as one) would know more than the Maiar, since the Maiar are less powerful than the Valar. Sauron was corrupted by Melkor, so I doubt Melkor would trust to tell him a lot of things, since he proved to be so easily corruptible, even though he was his most loyal servant. But what Melkor knows, Sauron probably wouldn't.
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Post by Eyalan on Mar 20, 2007 11:34:58 GMT -5
Perhaps Melkor was just practising when he made those creatures. But on the other hand, he doesn't have the power to give life.
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Post by Haldir on Mar 30, 2007 18:59:38 GMT -5
Would they be the kind of *bad* thing that's created while you make the good? I don't know if I'm making any sense... but like... though Illúvatar was the creator of all, the bad / nameless creatures in the abyss could be a sort of "side effect" of all his creations. Like leftovers. Sort of like a CO2 and O2 sort of thing, perhaps....
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Post by Eyalan on Mar 31, 2007 9:00:22 GMT -5
I would be bad if I was created nameless and thrown into the abyss! ;D
So that makes pretty good sense.
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