Silmarillon - The Movie

[Eyalan]

If there would be a Silmarillon movie, which I think is the first thing demanded after the Hobbit (Let's just keep poking them )
Which actors would you like to see for the characters? Who would make a good Luthien, for example?

[Haldir]

Wow that's hard ... I'd say that it would be a better idea to dig up new actors and actresses. The ones we have currently are pretty much worn and not suitable to act out such beautiful stories.. nuh uh.

[Anwyn]

I actually had a huge discussion/war/fight with a friend about the idea of a Sil movie not too long ago, but it was more along the lines of what parts should be included/excluded. I would have to check my logs to see what kind of a conclusion that we came too though

[Tar-Amon]

Absoloutly no actor could portray people like Feanor, Fingolfin, or any of the Noldor, I would want to see it done to the style of Final Fantasy Advent Children, so they can really make the Noldor, and the Ainur something special, no actor looks that superb, and no actress could play Luthien.
If it were made with real people, I would be incredibly disapointed, because that would mean whoever produced it was completely ignoring Tolkiens decriptions and writings of the Eldar. No matter how many effects, whatever make-up was used, it would not portray the Noldor of Aman, they would just be ' humans ' with special effects used to make their eyes incredibly bright, and with wigs on.
I would be really disgusted if it was made like that, because you have to have quite a few for the important characters, not just one. I'm no Orlando fan, but he was not bad as Legolas, he did look like a Sinda Elf, ( the rest of the elves were a thumbs down for me )
but the Noldor, born in Aman, were as far above a Sinda Elf born in Middle Earth as a falcon to a sparrow. Unless there are any real Noldor going around disguised, I would literally pray that if any-one produced it they would do it as

1) a series, possibly for tv.

2) with CGI

Even Dreamworks, who did Prince of Egypt, could do it pretty well, I think. If it was done in that grand style.

[Haldir]

^I agree with Tar ... couldn't have said it any better myself ... Hmm on the subject of Elves I don' think Craig did a bad job with Haldir either ... he pulled it off rather well ... but yeah out of all that you listed, I'd prefer a TV series.

[Tar-Amon]

I thought he was camp, the first time I saw him in Lorien, until he arrived at Helms Deep, - and promptly died! I kept telling peopel he didn't really die in the book, when they were getting upset.
Yeah, preach on, we demand no human actor plays a Noldor Elf, lol. Voices are acceptable!

[Anwyn]

I think that to play a Noldor Elf they would have to find a man so darkly handsome and strong, not to mention unnaturally tall that to just look at him you would swear off all other men unless it was him, and far as I know there is no one alive that matches that description.

If there is, I demand a location...and a map

I think that CGI would work along the vein of Advent Children, Even though I still have no idea whats happening in the movie its so breathtakingly done.

[Tar-Amon]

My mother watched Advent Children in complete puzzlement, but was fascinated with the way it was done.

I make no bones about being more interested in the Eldar than in the humans, except for characters like Turin Turambar, who was so tragic, - that story knocks Beren and Luthien into a thingyed hat for sheer angst and pain.
At least PJ did have many of the the Imladris elves as dark, which as they were mainly Noldor descent was right, but it never says anywhere that elves were all blonde, now every-one thinks all the Galadhrim and Mirkwood elves were, when the predominant hair colour was dark or brown, except for the Vanyar, if they intermarried they would often have gold-haired descendants. Elu Thingol apparently was dark until he met Melian, and his hair became silver.
I've sometimes spent time, wondering who could be used for some-one like Feanor, and come up with no-one, although some-one probably exists, who is not even an actor. Better to CGI it, and save time, AND get it right.

[Anwyn]

The story of Beren and Luthien has never moved me the way that it seems to affect most that I know whom have read it, I am not knocking it but any means, it was well written but not my favorite part of the book. I always found the story of the second born kind of intresting, what it must have been like to awaken in a world where already so much has happened, surronded by those thousands of years older than are still going to be around thousands of years after you die, and how you fit into all of this, Like coming into a movie that has already started and making sense of the first bit. I once read a good fic from Gandalfs perspective on the Lifes of men in which he compared them to his beloved fireworks, that for a moment in time they burn so brightly but then fizzle out, but for that one brief second there is much joy and wonder.

Regarding the hair color, I had a similar talk with my good friend Tessa after we had both seen LOTR the musical, and she had been quite put off by the fact that the actor who had played Legolas was most definately dark haired (Hard to say at times since the lighting was usually shadowy) and that she felt it was wrong becuase Legolas had been described as "Fair" and in her mind that *had* to equal pale skin and blonde hair, while this guy looked really tanned and dark hair. Its all in how you take that term, becuase "Fair" to me has always meant "nice to look at" becuase Tolkien uses the term to describe lands as well and say that they are fair.

I have come to see the Noldor as very dark as well, with the occasional exception becuase Tolkien did take care with his apperance, not overly so where he described everything down to what there toes like, but just enough to give you a good mental image. I think its really silly for anyone to believe that an entire culture of people is going to look exactly the same and have the same hair color, just everything like the Mirkwood Elves. Though if they are making the Hobbit movie I am abseloutely on pins and needles waiting to find out who is going to play Thranduil. Even the people of Rohan who are described as being tall, stern blonde haired and grey aired, thats just for the majority there were proably sometimes in which a man of Gondor married in, and since dark hair is *always* the dominant gene the next couple of generations after will be darker in apperance.

[Tar-Amon]

Thranduil was golden haired, so his son could have been, but it was not something I really thought about. JRRT specifically says the Noldor were dark, the Vanyar golden, which was admired by the Noldor, as far as I know the Teleri were darker as well.
I have seen pre film artwork showing Legolas as dark, but my guess is now he is stuck with blond forever.
One artist who does quite a lot of Sil based art, actually wrote for one picture, of the coming of Fingolfin, could people please stop telling her Fingolfin was blond, when it never says that , it specifies his brother Finarfin was , and not him, so I always saw him as dark.

It's only a few words in the Sil, but it makes one think. The first Edain took Fingolfin and his son Fingon as their lords, but after a while they were given their own fiefs and lordships as the Eldar saw it was not good for men and Elves to live together without order. Why? Did men just find it very uncomfertable being around these ageless people, were there incidences of men wanting elf women, or vice versa? At any rate is was decided they should live apart, although the men obviously loved them.

In UT there is one very poignant bit about ( I think ) Hurin, crying out that he longed for the chance to strike at Morgoth as his lord Fingolfin had done. Just those words shows a deep love and loyalty . It seems to show men and elves were much closer in those days than ever since then. And Turin was fostered in Doriath and loved by Thingol and Melian. Now his story is completely tragic, sent from his family, slaying his dearest friend, marrying his sister, - which is why I enjoyed finding out that the Valar took the spirits of he and his sister Niniel , and they went through the Bath of Flame, and became Valar and Turin is supposed to battle against Morgoth in the Dagor Dagorath.
I think I would like any Sil production to end with a huge climactic Last Battle.

[Anwyn]

I was looking on Wikipedia for something else and I happened to fall across an article on Legolas and his hair color was actually one part of the article and age seem to be two details that are abit cloudly and often disagreed upon, I would agree that since his father was blonde that the son would be as well, but that does not mean that *all* elves of Mirkwood are going to be blonde as well, Though there is a quote in the book

Frodo looked up at the Elf standing tall above him, as he gazed into the night, seeking a mark to shoot at. His head was dark, crowned with sharp white stars that glittered in the black pools of the sky behind.' (The Fellowship of the Ring, "The Great River")

Though it does say that it was night, hence lack of light which would make any hair color look dark, it does not nessacairly mean it was dark to begin with.

I think that its intresting the way that the role between men and elves changed, There was the last alliance but since then it has grown strained UNLESS *sigh* you are one of those people who have only seen the movies and believe that the Elves did come to the rescue at Helms Deep, Though it was a nice thought that there was that last stand with the elves, Its not canon. In the book Legolas was the only elf present.

Though there are still signs that mortals tried to almost emulate the elves. In fact "Rohan" comes from the Sindarin word "Rochand" as did the term Rohirrim both of which were given to the peoples by the son of Cirion. I bought a new book the other day called The Peoples of Middle Earth, and I came across one of the side notes that says

"The Kings and there Descendents after Thengel also knew the Sindarin tongue-the language of nobles in Gondor, In the list of the Kings of the Mark, on Thengels soujourn in Gondor, It is said that after his return to Rohan that 'the speech of Gondor was used in his house, and not all men thought that good'

Sindarin was also referred to the "Noble tongue" so it looks like any son of some power learned it as well as Westeron which was the most widely spoken tongue of men, though the "not all men thought that good" suggests that there were not all that supported the elves so highly, which makes sense becuase Middle Earth is such a living breathing place, it would not make sense not to have prejudices and fears towards the unfamilar. If it excists today, it most certainly excisted back then except only more so and I often try to work that into my writing.

Though besides little things like shared languages and names I agree and most certainly cannot invision huge villages where elf and man lived in peace or constantly got together which flies totally in the face of the thousands of fanfics and characters that I have seen where a mortal and an elf have a child that is a halfling, though I am not saying that it didn't happen as well, I just don't see the elves as wanting to have too many dealings with the men espically as they begeun to diminish, and the cases which they did happen were far rarer than some would believe.

Hurins story is incredibly poignant in so many ways, I completely agree. I don't think anything worse could happen to him, his entire life is just one bad day, Its not like locking the keys in the car, stepping in a puddle and then getting a parking ticket, Its so many huge things. Murdering his friend becuase he had been tortured so long that he thought he was an enemy, espically Beleg who is amongst my favorite characters who though Turin keeps making these choices to run, he keeps following and helping him to the very bitter end. I can't even handle the thought of loosing a close friend, but if it were by my own hand...I couldn't live with that, and it just keeps getting worse after that.

I am just going to keep reading the Sil over and over becuase I still feel like there is just too much that I missed.

Personally I would like to see it end on the quieter note of Maglor disappearing off into...whereever it is that Maglor ended up in the end, I find him another tragic character but not to the same extent as Turin.

[Tar-Amon]

I rather enjoy playing Maglor, he interests me, all the sons of Feanor do, I suppose, but mostly Maglor, and Maedhros, - you read the Sil and almost see the loathing and weariness of the Oath wearing on them.
I don't think either of the Elder brothers really wanted to attack Doriath, ( Maedhros actually looked for Diors children but never found them ) and certainly at the last Kinslaying, when they tried to take the Silmail from Elwing, and after, even against all the Host of the Valar, - by that time they were just sick unto death of it, weary to the soul. Maglor it is said, did come to love Elros and Elrond dearly, even though they were technically his captives.

People often find that whole Oath thing not easy to understand, but you have to imagine that this Oath was a living thing, and real, and cursed and kept working all through the five hundred years of the First Age. You see it in Turin's story, in the Fall of Gondolin, in Beren and Luthiens story, in fact in all of it, it weaves through it like a thread.

Reading the Sil for me, is not like reading a book it's like stepping into this ancient world, the book itself is not a third as big as LOTR , but it covers so much, each passage seems to open up something each time, and the tragedy , and valor and sorrow is so deep, a hopeless battle, which could not be won, by men or elves alone, or together, but they still tried.
I do understand the '' hands off '' attitude of the Valar, especially in anything to do with the Oath, but I do at times, wish they had done more.
Of course it would not be the same book then, Tolkien resisted the temptation of having a powerful intervention by Manwe , or Varda, and the Hosts of Valinor, until the very end. It takes a real storyteller to do that.

I think I am more interested in the Noldor simply because they were actually NOT perfect, their passions and brilliance, especially in Feanors case, made him on the fine line between genius and insanity, and I think he was insane when he made the oath, - Fingolfin lost his reason and attacked Morgoth, Maeglin fell because he lusted after Idril in Gondolin, although he was also a brilliant-minded character, Turgon would not abandon Gondolin, out of love for the things he had created, they were stubborn, illogical , but incredibly interesting .
They would be bloody annoying to get on with, or even live with, and one would be tempted to give them such a ding around the ear, but they are complex, and never, ever boring.
Tolkien also resisted that temptation - to make a kind of flawless Super-Race, he did give them flaws, they would kill one another, betray, kidnap, feel jealousy and hatred, - it actually makes them easier to understand than say the Vanyar, who not much is said about, and seem content to sit at the feet of the powers and do not much. ( They fought in the War of Wrath, yes )

[Anwyn]

I think that having the Valar just step in and stop all that happened, would be parellel to some people saying about the destruction of the Ring, that they did not just hop on a giant eagle and drop it off without all that happened inbetween. It happened becuase it *needed* to happen. Aragorn wasn't about to stride in, tear Denethor off the throne and proclaim himself King, Eowyn didn't decide to dress up as a man becuase she really liked pants (Or she could have, who knows) One event lead to another and another and another.

I always liked that Maglor raised Elros and Elrond more like his own sons then anything else, it was a nice bit of redemption. I don't hold what Feanors son completely against them, I understand that they did something brash but the Noldor were very passionate, and it would make sense that if the blood was running hot that they would do something like swear an oath.

Feanor is proably my favorite character becuase walking the line between being brilliant and insane is exactly so, he's very volatile and could have gone either way up to the slaying of his father and the theft of the Sil, though he was driven. So many things were set in play against him, The destruction of the trees and Morgoth being...Morgoth who was a truely wicked protagonist character who drives so much forward in the story.

Tolkien was so brilliant, I do often where he got the idea for this but you do see inspiration, It is not the first time that a city would fall and many would day becuase of lust (Troy) but at the same time he has joined his stories so well, and they are so colorful.

I like to think that all was more or less forgiven in the end, It is not realistic for everything to come full circle and all is well and happy, but it seems as though Tolkien really leaves it open to interuptration of the reader who has read and been a third party in all that has happened, and how you feel about it.

I can't say that I am one of those people who likes things to end up perfect, because in the real word few things are ever perfect and I really apprechiate realism.