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Orcs
Jul 22, 2006 11:29:41 GMT -5
Post by Eyalan on Jul 22, 2006 11:29:41 GMT -5
Yes you do definately deserve Karma for this one Wow, going sky high, Telpeath!
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Orcs
Jul 22, 2006 20:52:25 GMT -5
Post by Miluiel Greenleaf on Jul 22, 2006 20:52:25 GMT -5
WOW! I really knew nothing about Orcs excpet that they were once elves that were tortured, mutilated and became a "ruined form of life". That is all from TTT. The Uruks were more efficient, if you don't mind me saying.
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Orcs
Jul 22, 2006 21:09:45 GMT -5
Post by Haldir on Jul 22, 2006 21:09:45 GMT -5
Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was the previously corrupted Elves that Melkor captured and ruined.
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Orcs
Jul 23, 2006 16:20:59 GMT -5
Post by Miluiel Greenleaf on Jul 23, 2006 16:20:59 GMT -5
All I know is that they were "tortured, mutilated, a ruined form of life" (that's a quote from FOTR, I believe? Yes, FOTR) And I must agree with Telpeath. As for orcs having off spring, would that not depend on if female elves were taken? And I have never heard about that and yet something that I saw in one of the appendecies has made me since question that. But I still don't know. Shall I go do some research?
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Orcs
Jul 23, 2006 19:39:16 GMT -5
Post by Telpeath on Jul 23, 2006 19:39:16 GMT -5
Well, may I suggest the Return of the King appendix's or the Simralian (Cant spell that). In the Return of the King, it talks mostly about how the elves came to be with Ilumitar. This also supports my theory of the orcs no longer being immortal. Elves were tied with the earth because they loved the earth and its beauty, as Ilumitar set for them. Orcs seem to have the tendency, like in TT, to destroy what was beautyful. Thus, going against Ilumitars design of the elven race, they lost their immortality.
A daunting question though is also mentioned in the same book. Apparently, elves were blessed with immortal life and the Dunidine were blessed with long life. It states that the duinidin could not step in the lands of Valinor because they had to die, because elves cant take back their blessings. Yet, does this apply with the orcs? They were once elves, but can Ilumitar take back the gifts these people were given?
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Orcs
Jul 23, 2006 20:14:21 GMT -5
Post by Miluiel Greenleaf on Jul 23, 2006 20:14:21 GMT -5
Interesting. I must exalt you for being so smart
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Orcs
Jul 24, 2006 16:30:17 GMT -5
Post by Haldir on Jul 24, 2006 16:30:17 GMT -5
But they became a completely different race after that. They can't be blessed with a gift that is no longer theirs. It was intended for Elves ... and Elves only, not Orcs.
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Orcs
Jul 24, 2006 16:35:11 GMT -5
Post by Miluiel Greenleaf on Jul 24, 2006 16:35:11 GMT -5
Yes it is true. They no longer had the elven privileges, such as immortality, eternal youth and I doubt very much that they loved anything or felt any emotion other than anger. A rather sad exsistence, but one nonetheless. They were necessary to the story and a truly original idea.
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Orcs
Jul 24, 2006 21:07:38 GMT -5
Post by Haldir on Jul 24, 2006 21:07:38 GMT -5
Well not so much anger, but hate.
And Orcs were not immortal ... they no longer have the gift of immortality that was given to them when they were Elves. They were not very immune to diseases and they had shorter life spans than Men.
And Orcs are not originally created by Tolkien. They're actual Fantasy creatures that have been there for quite awhile. Before Tolkien and LotR, I'd imagine ... but Prof. Tolkien did use the idea of Orcs and added it to Middle-earth. Just like he used Elves, Goblins, Dwarves and such.
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Orcs
Jul 27, 2006 17:18:35 GMT -5
Post by Eyalan on Jul 27, 2006 17:18:35 GMT -5
Tolkien also "suggested" that Men were cross-bred with Orcs under Morgoth's lieutenant, Sauron (and possibly under Morgoth himself). The fierce high-orcs known as Uruk-hai were created in this way. The process was later repeated during the War of the Ring by Saruman, enabling him to make his own Uruks. Yuk!
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Orcs
Jul 28, 2006 20:02:45 GMT -5
Post by Haldir on Jul 28, 2006 20:02:45 GMT -5
Hmm ... that is very interesting, Eyalan!! Where in the books did you find that? I'm heavily debating with someone in A-U about this very same topic and I want to have a reference
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Orcs
Jul 29, 2006 0:40:54 GMT -5
Post by Eyalan on Jul 29, 2006 0:40:54 GMT -5
I actually found this on the internet. And because it said that Tolkien made this 'suggestion', I'm not sure weather he told this or wrote it down... I'm still searching for any records regarding this issue.
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Orcs
Aug 10, 2006 14:38:54 GMT -5
Post by Haldir on Aug 10, 2006 14:38:54 GMT -5
Some people are insisting that Orcs were bred from Men and not Elves, which is impossible.
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